Reading the news this morning, I happened to find myself on FARK.com which is a good place to kill half an hour or so. The news items are mixed with funny comments and sometimes - sometimes, it can turn into an interesting debate. This morning, the big post was about women spending their youth on crappy guys then suddenly wanting a nice guy later in life. A typical post went something like this:
Let me make this clear :
Nice guys don't want the girl 'in the end'. in the end? After she's blown you off for years? After she's defiled herself with jerks ? After she's grown fat and spongy? After she's suffered hip and nerve damage?
No. Nice guys, like all guys, want the girl to like us FIRST. In the morning of your womanhood, when they're still shy and love is still mysterious and lovely. When they're still excited about this big adventure called life ... We want them to look at us and be besotted with a deep, pure, abiding affection mixed with lust that they squander on guys with muscles, money or danger. We want them to be excited about dating, having sex with, and marrying someone fun, charming, witty, reliable, respectful and courteous.
But most women squander their first 15 years of adult womanhood, ruining their health, their complexion, their hair, their bodies, hearts and minds playing stupid games with people that they don't really want to be with forever, or chasing after men who will either kill them or dispose of them. They Get Tats, stretch marks, overcolor their hair (because it's 'fun' to be a blonde for 500$).
So, ladies. Screw you all very much. Because by the time you get around to liking us 'nice guys' we've become bitter misogynistic old men who frankly, are just in the mood to manipulate someone younger and prettier than you into casual sex, followed by some mind games because we're still pissed off about how you casually used our affection and friendship while squandering your youth with losers who didn't deserve you. And in the end, when we want kids and a family, you're all used up and no good to anyone for that, no matter how you want it.
I can't say I disagree with all this, but you don't have to be misogynistic. When you are young, it is vitally important for a guy to be with a girl who hasn't fucked everyone in town. It's a very special thing to be with a virgin girl and have that intense relationship - whether it works out or not. To men, a woman who reserves herself for that one guy is doing almost a "holy" thing whether she realizes it or not. The intimacy is much greater, and the sex is much better. When you are with a young girl who has already fucked and sucked lots of guys, it is far less exciting, far less of a bonding experience. It's just sex for sex's sake and that's all. Women don't realize this, and have this modern take on sex that "everyone does it" so why not just get out there and start experiencing different people?
I'm in the dating scene, but I leave my options open at all times. Virtually every woman I meet takes sex very casually with the bad boys and players, but takes it very seriously with the good guys. They will fuck a bad boy on the second date, but will make a nice guy wait for three months. No matter what the age, women will always prefer the bad boy, will always drop her pants for a high-earning, low-morals guy, as long as she feels flattered and/or hot and bothered.
They say "Nice Guys Win In the End", which means she will finally give up on her dream of taming a bad boy when she wants a mate who will share in the raising of children, and has a good income. She doesn't really want the nice guy; she wants his earnings and stability. Remember, the guys who care nothing for her get her heart first, get her sex first, get her love and caring and adoration first - and it's just recreation for him. The guy who would have treasured her love and sex has to wait until she's sexually serviced men who care nothing for her. Women don't realize this is the biggest possible turn off for a man.
I came to accept this early on. I treat women with the same respect I treat other men- but I do not treat them like virgin queens. I know they usually give the best of themselves to men who don't even want to see them again after a six minute fuck. One of the Fark members, a woman, even admits she preferred the jerks most of her life:
In other words, she fucked all the jerks and assholes and decided getting burned and abandoned was as good as it gets. Very reluctantly, she finally after many years decided to date a nice guy, and now he gets to be her 77th sex partner and pay for all the damage the jerks did to her. Wow, sign me up for that! How do I join that club?!?
You don't have to save the damsel-slut-in-distress. She doesn't want you now, and she didn't want you then, but the players had fantastic sex with her, and she always came back for more. When she completely gave up on men, she was ready to settle with a loser...I mean, nice guy. It doesn't have to be this way. I don't live that way, and decent men shouldn't either.
I get into short term relationships, jump into two-week sex romps with girls I don't really know, etc. I don't care whether they fall for me or not. Since my divorce in 2004, I've had four serious relationships and lots of temporary partners. In 100% of these hook-ups and relationships, the women talked about exes too much, had too much experience, and were desperately looking for a guy to take care of them. It wasn't that I was looking for the wrong kind of woman, it's just that women these days over the age of 30 are identical.
I admit, I used to go for the arrogant pretty boys. Married one, even. Then I got to a point where I was very okay with being single till the day I died, just me and my dogs, doin' fine. I never became a bitter man hater - I have too many really good guy friends to think that all men are evil. Then a "nice guy" who I'd known for years (but wasn't "my type") asked me out. I said "sure" figuring he'd be harmless, we'd get a beer, and I'd call it a night. The BEST date of my life, and we got married 6 months later.
In other words, she fucked all the jerks and assholes and decided getting burned and abandoned was as good as it gets. Very reluctantly, she finally after many years decided to date a nice guy, and now he gets to be her 77th sex partner and pay for all the damage the jerks did to her. Wow, sign me up for that! How do I join that club?!?
You don't have to save the damsel-slut-in-distress. She doesn't want you now, and she didn't want you then, but the players had fantastic sex with her, and she always came back for more. When she completely gave up on men, she was ready to settle with a loser...I mean, nice guy. It doesn't have to be this way. I don't live that way, and decent men shouldn't either.
I get into short term relationships, jump into two-week sex romps with girls I don't really know, etc. I don't care whether they fall for me or not. Since my divorce in 2004, I've had four serious relationships and lots of temporary partners. In 100% of these hook-ups and relationships, the women talked about exes too much, had too much experience, and were desperately looking for a guy to take care of them. It wasn't that I was looking for the wrong kind of woman, it's just that women these days over the age of 30 are identical.
Jane had a friends-with-benefits thing going on for about 11 years with a guy before he suddenly dumped her and married someone else. We were great together, and we got very close, but the hook-up guy was just too important to her, and she talked about him daily. I ended it and moved on.
Laurie was a hyper-Christian type and we had hot sex and lots of fun together, but she wanted a baby immediately and was still hung up on her preacher at church. It was only an emotional connection, but he had her heart while I only had her body. Usually, that's enough for me, but I didn't want to compete with the pastor of her church. I ended it and moved on.
Abby was a great girl and we had a ton of fun together; parties, drinking, going out, etc. We lived together but her ex-fiance was always chasing her; always calling, always coming by, sending her letters and cards, etc. She loved the attention and talked about how much she missed certain things about him. I ended it and moved on.
Most of my relationships are like this. None of the 15 women I've poked in the last six years have been completely there for me. They are all either doing the Sex & The City thing, or enjoying their independence after a divorce. No woman I've met is serious about really giving 100% in a relationship after age 30. I have had some lonely desperate types stalk me, some fat ex-employees who called me several times a day for months trying to get a date with me. I never got desperate, and I never developed the hatred for women that some men seem to have. I just enjoy women for sex and companionship and then I move on. I don't want to be controlled, or hear about how great the ex-boyfriends were, or how she is settling with me, but Johnny Herpesdick is such a great guy she is going to try and win him back eventually.
Don't get me wrong, I still love women, but I understand we don't live in a traditional society, so the norms of behavior that used to keep women's extremely bad judgement in line are no longer present. Now women will chase the players and married cheaters all through their lives, and responsible and loving men will be ignored unless they are being used. It's not always true, but it almost always is.
Still, men are being realistic in this debate while women seem to ignore the nice guys early in life and condemning them later. Yes, there are a lot of good guys out there who sit and wait while all the girls are boning losers with tattoos. A very good take on this comes from a level-headed commenter on Fark:
It depends on the individual, but not everyone has the same social opportunities. Remember this is fark and while the internet is much different in make up these days, places like this are still dominated by guys in technical careers. This means years in school with few women, workplaces with few women, etc and so on. It also means a lot of time at work because of the demanding nature of the professions. (Way too many engineers are married to women they met in school or at work/because of work.)
This kind of intelligence and hard work would have made a man a could catch for women earlier ages as per the long term ability to provide for children etc as mentioned in the article, but today that really doesn't matter so much. People are trained as consumers and don't really look that far ahead. There are social safety nets, relying on parents, etc and so on. It's considered a time to screw around...to go for fun, to go for what is novel and exciting.
The rift between someone who spent their 20s partying and someone who spent them working could build a resentment, one that can only be aggravated when those women who were consumers of the dating world in their teens and 20s grow up to a degree and then come looking but now with all the costs associated with their earlier choices. It's kind of like handing the bill to a party to the guy who wasn't invited.
Of course the best advice came at the end:
Nice Guys: Don't ever...ever listen to a woman's relationship advice. They have no idea what they want and make notoriously bad decisions. The quickest way to not get laid is to take their romantic advice.
Be confident. Its a numbers game. There's plenty of women out there. Go find yours and quit sitting around waiting for it. Women typically want to be pursued. Its in their lizard brain.
Still, men are being realistic in this debate while women seem to ignore the nice guys early in life and condemning them later. Yes, there are a lot of good guys out there who sit and wait while all the girls are boning losers with tattoos. A very good take on this comes from a level-headed commenter on Fark:
It depends on the individual, but not everyone has the same social opportunities. Remember this is fark and while the internet is much different in make up these days, places like this are still dominated by guys in technical careers. This means years in school with few women, workplaces with few women, etc and so on. It also means a lot of time at work because of the demanding nature of the professions. (Way too many engineers are married to women they met in school or at work/because of work.)
This kind of intelligence and hard work would have made a man a could catch for women earlier ages as per the long term ability to provide for children etc as mentioned in the article, but today that really doesn't matter so much. People are trained as consumers and don't really look that far ahead. There are social safety nets, relying on parents, etc and so on. It's considered a time to screw around...to go for fun, to go for what is novel and exciting.
The rift between someone who spent their 20s partying and someone who spent them working could build a resentment, one that can only be aggravated when those women who were consumers of the dating world in their teens and 20s grow up to a degree and then come looking but now with all the costs associated with their earlier choices. It's kind of like handing the bill to a party to the guy who wasn't invited.
Of course the best advice came at the end:
Nice Guys: Don't ever...ever listen to a woman's relationship advice. They have no idea what they want and make notoriously bad decisions. The quickest way to not get laid is to take their romantic advice.
Be confident. Its a numbers game. There's plenty of women out there. Go find yours and quit sitting around waiting for it. Women typically want to be pursued. Its in their lizard brain.
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